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brandon
May 17th, 2011, 10:25 PM
I wanted to know if any of you could give me a idea of how to change the wheel studs on my car. Stripped studs has been a problem I have recently run into pretty often, and I would like to know how to do this myself. I think I did this before when I started as a light duty technician at Suzuki, but don't quite remember the details. Any suggestions? I have read comments from some of you, advising me on the lug nut torque being set at like 62 ft lbs. Do any of you think the actual lug nuts can be contributing to this problem? In other words, if I buy the SWT lug nuts (seem to be made better than the OEM) after I replace some of these studs, should that help any? My plans are to replace all of the studs on the front (I have not had any problems with the rear which is strange) and buy a new set of lugs. I hope all of you are doing well and appreciate any help. :confused:

Speedlvr
May 17th, 2011, 10:43 PM
I believe the studs have to be "pressed" out. Which unfortunately I don't have the tools required to do this. I have only 1 stud I can't get the lug onto, and another which is close to the same point (1 on drivers front,1 on rear). Ultimately I think it has to do with the torque setting.

Personally I want to hold out long enough to where I'm replacing the rotors at the same time. 2 birds 1 stone kinda thing :)

Schultzey
May 18th, 2011, 12:42 AM
I have only replaced the wheel studs in the rear and it has been a couple years since I did this. I don't remember everything I removed to get access to the wheel stud. I know that it did not take long, as in a evening after work. The wheel stud came loose with a hammer after there was room behind it. I think the studs are supposed to be pressed in. I used an impact wrench on a nut to pull it into place instead. Be careful when doing this. You will need to use a spacer of some type before you run out of threads.

With as soft as the wheel studs are I am sure there are others with experience in the process. Maybe they can chime in and give you some descriptive advice.

Good luck changing the studs out.

Maiden69
May 18th, 2011, 05:25 AM
yeap, unless they are really rusted in, you should be able to use a heavy hammer and get them out without taking the hub out. I will be doing this to the front as soon as I get back to the USA from leave, but just from looking at it you will need to remove the caliper, disk, and probably the dust cover. Usually once you get that done there is a corner on the "spindle" that has a "U" shape that you rotate the stud you want to remove there and hammer it out. At least this was the way I done it on all my other cars

Ronzuki
May 18th, 2011, 05:28 AM
Can't help you out specifically on the SX4, never had any problems w/ the lugs and studs. I have had to beat out and replace a bunch of studs of various axles on the trail in the same exact manner as Schultzey has described. One additional suggestion would be to put an old lug nut on the stud to hammer on instead of the stud itself. Just in case it doesn't want to come out, the stud won't be all beat up possibly not allowing you reinstall the wheel in order to get it somewhere to have the work done.

Once you replace the studs, make sure all those who work on your car understand the factory specification for the wheel lug torque to eliminate this problem in the future....it is way low compared to just about everything else out there and, more to the point way lower than they are used to working w/ an air gun. Hand them a copy of the spec from the FSM and politetely tell them they will be responsible to repair any damage to the wheels, studs or rotors if they don't follow the factory specs and use a torque wrench instead of the gorilla's air mauler.

good luck.

Maiden69
May 18th, 2011, 06:22 AM
Once you replace the studs, make sure all those who work on your car understand the factory specification for the wheel lug torque to eliminate this problem in the future....it is way low compared to just about everything else out there and, more to the point way lower than they are used to working w/ an air gun. Hand them a copy of the spec from the FSM and politetely tell them they will be responsible to repair any damage to the wheels, studs or rotors if they don't follow the factory specs and use a torque wrench instead of the gorilla's air mauler.

good luck.
This is very important also... most places will use the air gun and after that finish up with a torque wrench. I got new tires and the first thing I told them was that I didn't want the gun used to either take out or install the lug nuts, I got a set from Rob (Angry Panda) and they are aluminum and I'm sure that they will get stripped the way that most shops do their work.

I did forget to add about the old lug nut in the end. Most times I use 2 regular flat nuts tightened against each other so that they will not wander as you hammer them.

TomC
May 18th, 2011, 09:02 AM
With as soft as the wheel studs are I am sure there are others with experience in the process.

Is that the reason the torque specs are so low compared to other vehicles?
If so, why in God's green earth would Suzuki use such "soft metal" for the studs?
To save 10 cents each in manufacturing costs? :crazy:

polarbear
May 18th, 2011, 09:13 AM
I would avoid hammering on the wheel hubs as you dont want to cause bearing damage. If you have the clearance , a large C clamp with a socket bigger than the stud head at the back to allow pressing them out would be an option. They wont have to move very far before they are free.

Maiden69
May 18th, 2011, 09:14 AM
I don't think that the material is any softer than any other brand. I do think that it has to do with the pitch. 12x1.25 has a much finer thread as the more popular 12x1.5. I used to use my impact gun with the OEM wheels and lug nuts and never had a problem, I'm sure most of the people having issues either overtightened the lug nuts or had them serviced at a place that don't care about any type of specs as long as the cars are not their own.

brandon
May 18th, 2011, 12:36 PM
You all are the best. Thanks for all the great information. Mabye I will even go back to the dealer I used to work at, and pay them to change the studs this time. I can always watch the technician I know, perform the work. From that point on, I will know how to do the job correctly. I want to slowly tackle more, myself, on our car since we are going to keep it, so I can torque things down properly, etc. While I'm talking about the wheels, I plan on changing the 16 inch OEM wheels to 17 inch Sport Edition wheels. I am considering the wheel spacers, and will definately be purchasing the rear sway bar from Rob at RRM when he gets a batch ready. Can anyone tell me for this wheel, what size wheel spacer is needed. Also, would it be a good idea to have someone align the car after adding the spacers. I want to get a little more handling out of the car for my next project. I have posted this before, but here is a picture of the wheel I am interested in....BTW This is a 17x7.5 wheel.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/listpictures/se_se14_bs_ci3_l.jpg

Ronzuki
May 18th, 2011, 12:57 PM
Is that the reason the torque specs are so low compared to other vehicles?
If so, why in God's green earth would Suzuki use such "soft metal" for the studs?
To save 10 cents each in manufacturing costs? :crazy:

These cars have what is known as a hubcentric design (the lip on the hub that corrodes where it fits into the back of the rim and requires one to bang the wheel off if you don't rotate regularly, or, treat the rims and hubs as Shadow had demonstrated in another thread). That is where the weight of the vehicle is transferred from the hub to the wheel, so the lugs and studs are only required to keep the wheel in place versus a lugcentric design (say my Samurai for instance) whereby the studs and lug nuts are the transfer mechanism for the vehicles weight to the ground through the rim/tire package. That lip on the hub is not present to fit inside the wheel rim on a lugcentric design. The wheels also do not have the reccess to accept that type of hub. So Tom, they could be "softer" metal studs, but generally speaking you don't want to crank too hard on the lugs because of the potential damage (cracking around the stud openings) of cast aluminum wheels, which I'm certain is the reason for such a low torque spec., cracks in your rims would be a really bad thing. Forged aluminum wheels are stronger, as well as much more expensive and you generally don't see them as OE on cars, usually only 3/4 and 1-ton trucks that have aluminum wheels.

Schultzey
May 18th, 2011, 01:17 PM
I don't think that the material is any softer than any other brand. I do think that it has to do with the pitch. 12x1.25 has a much finer thread as the more popular 12x1.5. I used to use my impact gun with the OEM wheels and lug nuts and never had a problem, I'm sure most of the people having issues either overtightened the lug nuts or had them serviced at a place that don't care about any type of specs as long as the cars are not their own.

You may be right that the material is not softer than any other brand. Due to the very low torque rating and numerous problems I was thinking that they may be soft. The fine thread is more susceptible to damage as you have pointed out. Subaru uses the same thread pitch and I read a lot of complaints from Subi owners of damage to wheel studs. It is likely that the problem is the pitch, over tightening, and cross threading.

Brandon - What is the offset of the wheels you are looking at?

brandon
May 18th, 2011, 01:47 PM
Offset: +45mm

Backspacing: 6.06"
Bolt Pattern: 5-114
Rec. Tire Size:205/50-17
Weight: 22.8lbs.

a3dstorm
May 18th, 2011, 02:39 PM
Back when I was working at a dealer we used to use a heavy ball peen hammer to hammer out the studs and a large soft brass punch to hammer them back in from the rear of the hub.

Now with our cars, if you go to a garage and they use an impact gun on your lugs make sure they are using a Yellow torque extension. These are color coded for a reason, they all have a specific torque range. The yellow one will torque up to 65 ft/lb which is the right one to use on our cars. Most garages use the brown one regardless of the car they are working on so they end up torquing the wheels to 85 ft/lbs, a sure way to strip the studs on a Suzuki SX4.
I torque my wheels with a proper torque wrench set to 62 ft/lb and I use what they call a lug nut protector socket, which is a socket protected by a plastic insert and outer plastic sleeve so you save your lug nuts from getting pitted with rust over time and save the recess hole of your wheels from getting damaged from the socket's outer part.

jr40490
May 18th, 2011, 02:55 PM
Back when I was working at a dealer we used to use a heavy ball peen hammer to hammer out the studs and a large soft brass punch to hammer them back in from the rear of the hub.

Now with our cars, if you go to a garage and they use an impact gun on your lugs make sure they are using a Yellow torque extension. These are color coded for a reason, they all have a specific torque range. The yellow one will torque up to 65 ft/lb which is the right one to use on our cars. Most garages use the brown one regardless of the car they are working on so they end up torquing the wheels to 85 ft/lbs, a sure way to strip the studs on a Suzuki SX4.
I torque my wheels with a proper torque wrench set to 62 ft/lb and I use what they call a lug nut protector socket, which is a socket protected by a plastic insert and outer plastic sleeve so you save your lug nuts from getting pitted with rust over time and save the recess hole of your wheels from getting damaged from the socket's outer part.
where did you get the lug nut protector socket i want that since i have open ended lug nuts

a3dstorm
May 18th, 2011, 03:06 PM
where did you get the lug nut protector socket i want that since i have open ended lug nuts

Search on google for a Store near you. Mine are made by CP Chicago Pneumatic. Snap-on should have their own. Mac Tools etc.
Find the store nearest to you. I ordered mine from an online store in Canada. 25$ for a set of the three most common lug nut size. 17, 19 and 21mm

Wyliec
May 18th, 2011, 04:59 PM
Offset: +45mm

Backspacing: 6.06"
Bolt Pattern: 5-114
Rec. Tire Size:205/50-17
Weight: 22.8lbs.

You'll be fine with those. 7.5" wide you said right? Mine are the same width and offset, just 18" instead on 225 wide rubber. The rear wheels on the hatch have more "tuck" than the sedans, you'd only want at most a 10mm spacer back there if any at all.

brandon
May 18th, 2011, 05:03 PM
You'll be fine with those. 7.5" wide you said right? Mine are the same width and offset, just 18" instead on 225 wide rubber. The rear wheels on the hatch have more "tuck" than the sedans, you'd only want at most a 10mm spacer back there if any at all.

Hey Wyliec, I hope you have been well. So are you saying the sedans don't really need the spacers with this type of wheel? I was wondering why everybody was jumping on the spacers sold in the private vendor thread.

Speedlvr
May 18th, 2011, 07:00 PM
I guess it really depends on the look you're going for. My rims are 7.5" wide with a +40 offset, and the tire sits just inside the "lip" of the fender(on the rear). But if You're wanting the tire to sit just outside the fender then I think you'll need more than a 10mm.......I'm still not used to mm. I like inches :D Can't wait to see you're FLUSH ride :cool:

Maiden69
May 18th, 2011, 07:11 PM
Brandon, it all depends on what look are you going for. For most people the aftermarket offset will look good on our car. But to must of us, want to go one step further and make it look "perfect". On this case it will require you to roll the edges of your fenders and then measure the distance that you need to bring the edge of the tire to sit as close to flush as you can with the inner edge of the fender. My rears are a little over 1/8" from the metal rolled edge. Here are some pics so you can see the difference.

Here is a pic of when my car was virtually mod-virgin... you can see how far in the wheels are in the rear.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/Maiden69/DSC06512.jpg
And here is a pic of the rear with the spacer. Car is lowered also, so you can really tell how close it is to the inner fender.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/Maiden69/DSC02085.jpg
and from the front
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/Maiden69/DSC02081.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/Maiden69/DSC01926.jpg

Crossover Zack
May 19th, 2011, 10:49 AM
just in case you never wanted to replace a wheel stud again :P

http://www.get-primitive.com/

http://www.writerguy.com/primitive/suzuki/images/suzuki_wheels.suspension/arp%20wheel%20studs.jpg

ARP Long Wheel Studs
Item # S-305

ARP’s heat-treated 8740 chrome moly wheel studs are a much-needed replacement for any car engaged in racing competition. They have a tensile strength of 190,000 psi and are able to easily handle the tremendous acceleration shock loads (shear) and lateral forces (elongation) found in racing. The studs are sold in packs of 5 and are cadmium plated for extra durability. Nuts not included.

PRICE IS FOR A COMPLETE SET OF 20 STUDS
CONTACT US FOR SINGLE (5 STUD) KITS

Your Price: $193

Maiden69
May 19th, 2011, 06:21 PM
They sell those and the NISMO studs also, I bought the NISMO, since those where the ones that Paul thought will suit what I need. But if they are too short (I only need about 1/2" extra) I will have to send them back to get the ARP ones. But the ARP will not work with OEM lug nuts, they are way longer than factory.

polarbear
May 20th, 2011, 07:45 AM
JEGs and Summit racing sell the ARP studs (12 x 1.25 mm-listed for Subaru's) for about $136 for a full set. Maiden is right about the length, tho--they look to be about 3 inches long! They could always be cut shorter.