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Mandi
November 20th, 2010, 03:57 PM
This is weird. I logged in, and posted a new thread.

mule
November 20th, 2010, 03:59 PM
i think we should still look into building this forum, if nothing else - maybe a mirror.

Brumbie13
November 20th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Hmmm...

Yeah, it's back up.

The heck?

Mandi
November 20th, 2010, 04:30 PM
Can you move all the threads from SX4Forums to this forum?

Brumbie13
November 20th, 2010, 04:50 PM
Can you move all the threads from SX4Forums to this forum?
I guess technically I could do that.

But I don't know if that is morally right.

The forum isn't mine, I don't own it.
I don't want to rip all of the content from the site owned by someone else to build my own.

I'd like the security of knowing that I'm completely responsible for the site, including payment payment.
and I love this new version of VBulletin, it has a lot of excellent new features.

But I hate having no ability to control the server, or remedy problems.

Starting a forum is the hard part, maintaining it isn't.
I didn't start the forum, Jason started the forum. I have been maintaining it, but he did a lot of the footwork.

There's also the fact that the other forum has all the user history. It has all our posts, it has our postcounts, it has everything that has ever happened.

I guess there's a lot to consider, and I'm torn about what to do.

The Jesuit
November 20th, 2010, 05:36 PM
Where's Nostradamus when you need him?

Audiopudding
November 20th, 2010, 05:38 PM
To the very least, we can take the 'how to', documentation, and the like, bring them over here. At the very least for backup.

Caterham
November 20th, 2010, 05:50 PM
I guess technically I could do that.

But I don't know if that is morally right.

The forum isn't mine, I don't own it.
I don't want to rip all of the content from the site owned by someone else to build my own.

I'd like the security of knowing that I'm completely responsible for the site, including payment payment.
and I love this new version of VBulletin, it has a lot of excellent new features.

But I hate having no ability to control the server, or remedy problems.

Starting a forum is the hard part, maintaining it isn't.
I didn't start the forum, Jason started the forum. I have been maintaining it, but he did a lot of the footwork.

There's also the fact that the other forum has all the user history. It has all our posts, it has our postcounts, it has everything that has ever happened.

I guess there's a lot to consider, and I'm torn about what to do.

I'm thinking you could add the content, but keep it hidden (off-off topic?). Then if the old site disappears forever, you could reveal it. I think the posts belong to those that made them. Yes, Jasonm created the old forum, but ALL OF US made it. If he ever abandons us, we'll need a new supporter and I'ne always thought of you as a supporter. ;p

The Shadow
November 21st, 2010, 05:29 AM
I already work over a dozen forums, on several topics and having one more (one that I know will be here) is NO big problem.

Please continue to build up this NEW Forum!

If someone wants to copy and paste their own "How To" from the old forum to the new one, that's their prerogative.
That should be encouraged, not discouraged. The more content we have here, the better the forum will be.

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
The Shadow :cool:

markolson
November 21st, 2010, 07:56 AM
I gotta say this forum works better than the "old" one. For some reason, I could never use the "Quick Reply" on the old - this works just fine.

We are all starting back as "Junior" again - so I guess as long as the people are the same here, the forum will grow quickly. I don't know who Jason is but I would hope that he would be willing to work with the users and Brumbie and company to combine both at some future date. Backup or mirror with cross-linking of the domain names.

Ale Ane
November 21st, 2010, 12:02 PM
I definitely like the cleaner UI here. Wouldn't transferring the content create some problems? For example, transcribing the original content over would consist of posts from users that are non-existent on this forum.

punksmurph
November 22nd, 2010, 12:00 AM
I definitely like the cleaner UI here. Wouldn't transferring the content create some problems? For example, transcribing the original content over would consist of posts from users that are non-existent on this forum.

At this point it would have to be manually copied. I think that if this was to be the new site then we would have to set up a team of people to do it.

Ale Ane
November 22nd, 2010, 07:01 PM
The thought of going through every individual thread makes me cringe, but it does give us a chance to consolidate the stores of knowledge we have on the old forums into short 'n sweet threads here.

Crossover Zack
November 22nd, 2010, 07:07 PM
i think we should just post the info as we need it. besides, we know where to find it...

punksmurph
November 23rd, 2010, 04:31 PM
I think that people should be working on what they would like to see here on their own. If there is an awesome How To you want moved, do it. It is a gray area to have the admin team pull data from the old site as we really don't own the rights, but there is nothing that stops the user community from recreating it. Since the information is user generated and there is no ownership right of the content of a post then by all mean move it. As for the data on the site it does belong to Jason, and I think we just need to respect that and leave the 1s and 0s there.

B-Spec
November 24th, 2010, 04:41 AM
In order to copy everything over you have to have access to the data base on the old forum.. In order to do that the forum owner would have to give permission and access. The only other thing you can do is have each member that made the original post on the other board copy their posts over here.. An admin from this new board can not copy other peoples posts over without permission from the board owner.. Technically everything over there is his..

The Jesuit
November 24th, 2010, 06:26 AM
In order to copy everything over you have to have access to the data base on the old forum.. In order to do that the forum owner would have to give permission and access. The only other thing you can do is have each member that made the original post on the other board copy their posts over here.. An admin from this new board can not copy other peoples posts over without permission from the board owner.. Technically everything over there is his..



Exactly; my attorney explained that to me the other day when I was contemplating buying an "existing" forum that purportedly went **** up. As he sees it, unless all active and past members give specific permission to allow their threads and posts to remain on the newly revived and under new ownership forum (or transferred to a newly created forum, for that matter), there is nothing stopping them from demanding that their "intellectual" property be removed from the site. Starting from scratch seems to be the only way to avoid potential legal pitfalls and nightmares.

punksmurph
November 24th, 2010, 09:01 AM
Here is the best way I can describe this.

Data: The 1's and 0's that are stored on a server, Jason owns them.

Content: The words that are written and displayed on the forum, they are public.

We can not access the database on the old server and take data like B-Spec said, unless we were to purchase the site name and data from Jason. As far as the content we can freely take what we want from the old site as there are no protections to the content being shared. Since it is a public forum the purpose of the content is to share and discuss there is nothing from stopping us from doing that.

Jesuit, if you purchased the forum name and its corresponding data then people could not really get mad since they displayed it in a public venue to share. Its as if I Tweet something, delete it, then get pissed a bunch of people retweeted it and will not take it down. They don't need my permission, it is implied they have it when I post on Twitter (a public venue).

Brumbie13
November 24th, 2010, 09:44 AM
We have started putting in place a good system for the how to's:

1) People have gone on, and copied and pasted the how to, putting it in the quote of the original author.
2) On the top of the page, we place a hyperlink to the original thread.

I think this is good because we are getting important how-to's over here, but we are acknowledging and linking to the original threads with all of the original information.

I think this is a fair way of getting things over here, while not ripping Jason off.

The Jesuit
November 24th, 2010, 09:45 AM
Here is the best way I can describe this.

Data: The 1's and 0's that are stored on a server, Jason owns them.

Content: The words that are written and displayed on the forum, they are public.

We can not access the database on the old server and take data like B-Spec said, unless we were to purchase the site name and data from Jason. As far as the content we can freely take what we want from the old site as there are no protections to the content being shared. Since it is a public forum the purpose of the content is to share and discuss there is nothing from stopping us from doing that.

Jesuit, if you purchased the forum name and its corresponding data then people could not really get mad since they displayed it in a public venue to share. Its as if I Tweet something, delete it, then get pissed a bunch of people retweeted it and will not take it down. They don't need my permission, it is implied they have it when I post on Twitter (a public venue).

I asked my attorney a similar question; his response was that the members of a forum signed on and agreed to the terms of a specific forum....that if the forum owners changed, and if for example, there were rule changes that are different from the original rules, and that these new rules are not acceptable to the current membership, that those members had a right to retrieve and or have deleted any and all intellectual property. When we sign on to a new forum, we must agree to certain rules, and that's when one's posts/threads become public, because we agreed to whatever rules were in place. Any changes to what one originally agreed to leaves open the opportunity for one to end his membership, and with that ending of membership, he/she has a right to his "intellectual" property; typically, this is by admin deleting all posts and threads.

This is done by a lot of forums, especially ones with a large membership base, ones that are big moneymakers for their owners, ones that have a large paid advertising base, etc. I have had to delete all threads and posts by members who have been permanently banned at one forum I moderate.

mcmuda
November 24th, 2010, 09:54 AM
Here is the best way I can describe this.

Data: The 1's and 0's that are stored on a server, Jason owns them.

Content: The words that are written and displayed on the forum, they are public.

We can not access the database on the old server and take data like B-Spec said, unless we were to purchase the site name and data from Jason. As far as the content we can freely take what we want from the old site as there are no protections to the content being shared. Since it is a public forum the purpose of the content is to share and discuss there is nothing from stopping us from doing that.

Jesuit, if you purchased the forum name and its corresponding data then people could not really get mad since they displayed it in a public venue to share. Its as if I Tweet something, delete it, then get pissed a bunch of people retweeted it and will not take it down. They don't need my permission, it is implied they have it when I post on Twitter (a public venue).
Exactly. I'm sure someone has used the various thread on SX4Club elsewhere BEFORE ClubSX4 even came to be. It's all fair game like freedom of speech.

punksmurph
November 24th, 2010, 11:36 AM
Exactly. I'm sure someone has used the various thread on SX4Club elsewhere BEFORE ClubSX4 even came to be. It's all fair game like freedom of speech.

It actually falls under fair use more so than free speech. It would be a huge uphill battle to sue a person or forum for "Intellectual Property" violation by reposting or allowing continued posting of material placed in a public forum. I use the example of someone taping me speaking to a crowd in a park. If I just stand on a bench and start talking and someone tapes it, the have a right to use it. Public venue with no rights to privacy or implied ownership of any media created from when I was speaking. Anyone can join and speak. Now we have rules that govern what is allowed in our community but we do not require references or referrals for membership. This makes up public. A more private forum that has strict membership guidelines might be different, but I don't think we need to go in that direction or follow that rule formate.

As for moving post what Brumbie said would be the best way to work it. If you are reposting another members thread siting original work by quoting text and linking to it the archive our base it covered. If you are the original poster and are reposting then don't worry about that step, just copy and paste, it is your work to republish as you like.

Audiopudding
November 24th, 2010, 12:21 PM
I have no qualms about quoting or migrating threads over here. I was searching for a cached version of my service manual thread in google and ran across about 40 versions hosted in India and translated. The only reason I found them is they are linking to my website, which I went and looked at the logs and saw more people were downloading the service manuals and bit torrent files I am hosting there than there are SX4's in North America. Scared me until I realized my bandwidth wasn't in danger.

All in all, I actually felt good about it. Sharing knowledge and building a community is what all of us are going to a forum for anyway. Knowledge travels, communities migrate. Fact of life.

kstazman
November 24th, 2010, 06:18 PM
I like being part of something new. Let`s keep going and make it great!

mcmuda
November 24th, 2010, 06:39 PM
It actually falls under fair use more so than free speech. It would be a huge uphill battle to sue a person or forum for "Intellectual Property" violation by reposting or allowing continued posting of material placed in a public forum. I use the example of someone taping me speaking to a crowd in a park. If I just stand on a bench and start talking and someone tapes it, the have a right to use it. Public venue with no rights to privacy or implied ownership of any media created from when I was speaking. Anyone can join and speak. Now we have rules that govern what is allowed in our community but we do not require references or referrals for membership. This makes up public. A more private forum that has strict membership guidelines might be different, but I don't think we need to go in that direction or follow that rule formate.

As for moving post what Brumbie said would be the best way to work it. If you are reposting another members thread siting original work by quoting text and linking to it the archive our base it covered. If you are the original poster and are reposting then don't worry about that step, just copy and paste, it is your work to republish as you like.

oops that's what i meant :O

That's what me and some other members have been doing. Plagiarism is bad. I learned that in school :P